The Gaming Den

I particularly liked some of the ideas in Alternity's implementation of hit points, and was just curious what people thought on the matter.

Effectively how Alternity handles hit points is as follows: Characters have three main types of hit points - stun, wound and mortal. Characters get stun and wound points equal to their constitution and mortal points equal to half their constitution. Damage depends on the weapon - blunt weapons usually cause stun damage but can cause wound damage on "amazing" hits, small slashing weapons always deal wound damage, and axes and heavy weapons deal wound damage generally, but deal mortal damage on "amazing" hits. An "amazing" hit in this case is roughly equivalent to a critical hit.

A character that is reduced to 0 stun points is knocked unconscious. Any further stun points inflicted are then applied to a character's wound score. A character reduced to 0 wound points is also knocked unconscious. Any further wound points inflicted are then applied to a character's mortal score. A character reduced to 0 mortal points is considered dead. A character with any mortal damage must make continuous checks or continue to experience mortal damage every round unless stabilized.

Further, for every two points of wound damage a character experiences in a single attack, he receives one point of stun damage. For every two points of mortal damage a character receives in a single attack, he receives one point of wound damage and one point of stun damage.

So, the question of this system is simple - is this a reasonable system? Are the rewards provided by the added flexibility of this system enough to balance the added complexity, when compared to a static one-number hit point system?

In that system you don't want to wield a blunt weapon ever.

MrWaeseL at [unixtime wrote:1119252665[/unixtime]]In that system you don't want to wield a blunt weapon ever.

Unless you might want to 'ask questions later', or you had a blunt weapon that did more damage - given that the enemy is unconscious if he reaches zero on either stun or wounds, and that both are the same number, unless your character particularly wanted enemies to die or to survive, then damage is still the best reason to choose a weapon.

Of course, if there is some armour system in the game that makes it easier to prevent stun damage, or stun damage regenerates in-combat, (I know nothing of this Alternity), then going for the kill becomes sensible again.

etc etc

Aycarus wrote:A character that is reduced to 0 stun points is knocked unconscious. Any further stun points inflicted are then applied to a character's wound score. A character reduced to 0 wound points is also knocked unconscious. Any further wound points inflicted are then applied to a character's mortal score. A character reduced to 0 mortal points is considered dead.

So wielding a blunt weapon basically means you have to knock off an additional tier of HP from your opponents.

So, yes, the only reason to wield a blunt weapon is when you are facing someone you want to bring back alive and your blunt weapon deals more damage than your normal weapon. I don't know how alternity handles weapon damage, but from a D&D POV that's effectively never.

Armor absorbs stun and wound damage equally. Stun damage regenerates after combat, whereas wound damage takes some time to heal. Probably one thing of note is that healing is much less readily available under this system, so wound damage will take some time to heal.

AARRRRGHHHH!!!!
DIE GHOST OF GYGAX!!!! FREAKIN' DIE ALRIGHT ALREADY.

This comes directly from D&D clerics being reluctant to shed blood, and therefore using such sort an cuddly weapons as the mace and hammer. Apparently, in Gary's world, massive blunt force trauma doesn't spill blood. I guess nobody ever hit him in the head with a hammer.

Okay, now that the "realism" argument is off my chest, I feel better.

Seriously, it's almost reasonable, and if blunt weapons deal substantially more damage (or hit more often, or are easier to use) it's acceptable. Otherwise, in the system blunt weapons really are inferior.

Blunt weapon normal: 1 stun
Blunt weapon critical: 1 wound, 1/2 stun
Light Slashing: 1 wound, 1/2 stun
Heavy slashing weapon normal: 1 wound, 1/2 stun
Heavy slashing weapon crit: 1 mortal, 1/2 wound, 1/2 stun

Now since getting through either stun or wound incapacitates a character, which type doesn't matter, only how much damage of each type is done. Unfortunately, this system seems structured as if these types did in fact matter.

Now mortal damage does matter, because it is half the size of the other pools and you experience continous damage when you take even a single wound.

Note that an amazing hit with a blunt weapon deals only half damage to the hit point pool it normally attacks...this actually makes crits a bad thing with blunt weapons. This needs to change. Criticals need to deal just at least as much damage of the weapon's normal type as normal hits do, and then have additional effects.

The system seems to run into the problem of multiple hit point types - namely being if the party isn't coordinated with the type of damage they're doing then they're not properly synergizing. Does anybody see this as a major shortfall under this system?

Aycarus wrote:Does anybody see this as a major shortfall under this system?

Yes. I am completely at a loss as to what possible advantages it might have.

If you're going to have multiple types of damage, you should have all of them accumulate on the same damage track for the purposes of dropping people - like WW tried to do, only without being really lame.

For example, eliminate Stun as a damage type that things can inflict. Instead, hand out a point of Stun damage every time someone takes wound poins or mortal points.

-Username17

FrankTrollman at [unixtime wrote:1119314694[/unixtime]]Yes. I am completely at a loss as to what possible advantages it might have.

Well, what it attempts to do is describe a method of knocking out an opponent without causing any lasting harm. Mind you, I use the word "attempts" loosely because it doesn't do it particularly well and opens itself up to a few notable shortfalls.

If you're going to have multiple types of damage, you should have all of them accumulate on the same damage track for the purposes of dropping people - like WW tried to do, only without being really lame.

What's WW?

For example, eliminate Stun as a damage type that things can inflict. Instead, hand out a point of Stun damage every time someone takes wound poins or mortal points.

It seems like characters would likely die then well before they were knocked out due to depleted stun points. But that wouldn't make any sense, so I assume I'm not understanding what you're saying correctly. Plus that wouldn't quite acomplish the aformentioned goal as to what the system is attempting to do.

How about this modified idea: merge Stun and Wound into a single damage track which reflects the amount of harm inflicted on the target (as Frank suggested). There will also be mortal damage, which represents internal bleeding and damage not readily healed. Mortal damage works the same was as the Alternity system - a character that experiences Mortal damage immediately begins the slow descent into more internal damage unless he is stabilized.

The harm track works as follows: stun and wound damage are marked together on the harm track. A character that drops to zero hit points (from all stun, all wound, or a mixture of stun and wound) is knocked unconscious. Further, a character who currently has half his total hit points as stun damage must make a physical resolve check or fall unconscious. Once a character is at zero hit points, any further stun or wound damage overwrites previous "stun" damage with wound damage. Once a character has only wound damage remaining, any further damage is applied to his mortal damage.

Aycarus wrote:

FrankTrollman wrote:For example, eliminate Stun as a damage type that things can inflict. Instead, hand out a point of Stun damage every time someone takes wound poins or mortal points.

It seems like characters would likely die then well before they were knocked out due to depleted stun points. But that wouldn't make any sense, so I assume I'm not understanding what you're saying correctly.

FrankTrollman wrote:If you're going to have multiple types of damage, you should have all of them accumulate on the same damage track for the purposes of dropping people

(bolding mine)